Paidea&Ludus (With a note to Salen and Zimmerman)

Right. Before I start blogging my opinions on Paidea and Ludus I need to get something off my chest, for it has been bothering me since I read it.

Salen and Zimmerman. Where do you get off excluding RPG's as games? I looked it up. You state (and I quote) :

"A game is a system in which players engage in artifical conflict, defined by rules, that results in a quantifiable outcome."
"A puzzle is a specific type of game since there's only 1 correct answer. An RPG doesn't have a quantifiable outcome."
"Quantifiable Outcome: Games have a quantifiable goal or outcome. At the conclusion of a game, a player has either won or lost or received some kind of numerical score.A quantifiable outcome is what usually distinguishes a game from less formal play activities.

To say RPG's don't have a quantifiable outcome, to me, is wrong. Whether it is a quest or a storyline the outcome is written, ready for the player to achieve whatever goal is relevant to his struggle. Puzzle elements are found in how the player decides to overcome problems and achieve said goal but this is really a two state dilemma. The player wins or loses. Achieves the goal, or does NOT achieve the goal. I feel quite passionate about RPG's, Oblivion and Fallout 3 (the best games in the world ever) and also a recovered World of Warcraft player. In Fallout 3 different quest oppurtunities are thrown at you constantly, and no, of course I did not do every single one. But if you follow the storyline through to the end, the game is over. And when I checked my friends has a pretty similar experience of the storyline in the sense that, you know, the game finished. What's that Salen and Zimmerman? You say "At the conclusion of a game, a player has either won or lost. . "

Stop contradicting yourself. RPG's so are games. The best kind too.


Anyway!
So Paidea = Play for pleasure (effectively)
Ludus = More constrained by rules, with a clear outcome

I would have to pick a game like the Sims for an example of paidea. After many hours wasted on such a game it seems apparent very quickly that there is no set goals to achieve. If the player wants, he/she can build houses, families, neighbours etc, sheerly for the fun of it. Goals can be set and acheived but only if the player strives for it, as there is always the oppurtunity to make your sim better. The trick is that this becomes increasingly difficult as you play, in order to be the best you have to find a perfect balance so as to keep your sim happy, sociable yet work hard and have the necessary requirements to advance in whatever field you've chosen for them. As this game can be played to a purpose (but only at the players discression) , or just to cause some mayhem as is the way usually between sims players, it is in my opinion that this game suits the idea of paidea perfectly.
 Now a good example of Ludus would probably be a game such as Worms, or worms 3d. Much less room for a player to make free-willed decisions. The player is given their team of worms and weapons, plonked onto a map and the battle commences. Although the player has a wide variety of ways, strategies and whatnot to win the battle, the game will always end with a loser and a winner.The game is restricted by these rules and outcomes but it does not hinder the gameplay. It does however mean the player cannot necessarily advance in a way that they see fit as at the end of the day, they are playing as worms. For the restraints, rules and regulations of the game this is why I have chosen it as an example Ludus.